Just for the sake of completeness – I occasionally refer back to posts here on examples of Thucydideanisms in the media, and I imagine that others may do so – I note the piece in today’s New York Times by Robert Zaretsky, Professor of French History at the University of Houston, entitled What Would Thucydides Say About The Crisis In Greece?. Yes, of course it’s a summary of the Melian Dialogue, along the now-familiar lines. One might have hoped that the developing polarisation within Greek society, with demonstrations and counter-demonstrations about the forthcoming referendum, would mean that we could move on to the Corcyrean stasis for a bit, to be followed eventually by the Sicilian expedition (leaving aside the well-attested capacity of the EU to keep kicking that can down the road so nothing ever gets anywhere near an actual resolution), but no…
Zaretsky does note that it was the Melian elite alone who determined on the policy of resistance – obviously I’m not the only person who suddenly noticed this in the aftermath of Tsipras’ referendum decision – and he offers some interesting speculation on the role of off-stage forces (the establishment of the European Union as a response to Russia = the Delian League as a response to Persia, and in both cases the original threat has passed and the union has become a self-perpetuating autocracy – though, as one commentator notes, actually it was more about tying Germany into European structures to prevent another war). Not so sure about some other bits: whence comes the idea that “Europe’s leaders insist that Greece belongs to the European “homeland” whether it likes it or not” – the exact opposite, surely? – and do we really have solid evidence that Thucydides and Sophocles were mates? There’s very little discussion of the detail of the Dialogue and of the conflicting views of power, justice and the nature of the world therein, but mostly just a comparison of the historical situations; it does feel rather as if the authority of Thucydides is being taken for granted on the part of his audience, and yet that audience is assumed not to know very much about it. Maybe that’s a fair assumption.
Mostly, of course, I’m just wondering whether it really makes sense to carry on writing this sort of thing here on the blog rather than trying to persuade a proper newspaper to pay me actual money… No! This isn’t about me or the money, it’s about a serious attempt at considering the uses to which Thucydides has been put by commentators (indeed, I think it’s a serious error that the Melian Dialogue hasn’t been included in the #Grexit Journalist Cliche Bingo card) and the possibility that his analysis of the dynamics of power might still have some relevance to the present. I would tentatively suggest that simply offering a vague comparison of then and now doesn’t get us very far with this.
However, I *would* recommend reading some of the comments, which are extremely entertaining..
“This is another inane and twisted editorial by an leftist academic navel-gazer with time on his hands and head filled with leftist-zombie. Greece wanted to sit at the table with the adults and play like a child. Th leftist coddling of the irresponsible and shaming of the responsible shows the complete lack of morals and spine. You make an agreement to play by the rules there is no onus on the referees. Self-indulgent irresponsibility by an electorate has consequences. To push the author’s analogy a little further, Athens over-extended themselves, squandered their strength, and was ultimately defeated by the highly disciplined Spartans. That is the real lesson we should learn from Ancient Greece.”
A fair number take the well-known hard-edged realism and objectivity of Thucydides as a launching pad for “actually we need to face up to the fact that the Greeks are lazy and profligate” rhetoric…
The claim about Thucydides and Sophocles being friends has now been rubbished, and someone else has suggested that the Mytilene Debate may be a more useful analogy,,, My opinion of NYT BTL commentators is rising – and now Hayden White (*the* Hayden White?) has turned up.
No, they’re going batty again:
I knew they doom was in their future. And I started making predictions that sadly became true. A few years ago, a close relative was there in Industrial Engineering graduate school and had the opportunity to have a close look at their Greek tragedy.
In Greek, Periclean fashion almost nobody wants to do the hard work, everything has to be done for enlightenment. Everyone wants to cultivate the spirit, the physique, beauty and loathes getting dirty cultivating the land or oiling their hands in the industry, or having to worring about money.
Wasn´t Pericles the one that invented futile centralized government, and Plato the one that despised the Phoenicians for worrying too much about money?
They all are only experiencing their long lazy journey into monetary darkness–in enlighted and beautiful fashion.